The Secret Cause of Flame Wars
I've been intrigued by a few "heated" discussions I've witnessed on a wide variety of blogs lately (I'm sure many of you have witnessed such discussions as well). So I'd like to share this article that sheds a bit of light on such phenomena. It's called "The Secret Cause of Flame Wars," by Stephen Leahy, and it originally appeared in a 2006 issue of Wired magazine. I read it for the first time today (thanks to Geoffrey Landis, who posted the link in a comment on the ClevelandPoetics blog):
* * *
"Don't work too hard," wrote a colleague in an e-mail today. Was she sincere or sarcastic? I think I know (sarcastic), but I'm probably wrong.
According to recent research published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
* * *
To read the rest of this quite interesting article, visit http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179
Then please return here and share your thoughts, comments, disagreements, and/or illustrations of how true this is.
If so inclined, you may also subscribe to either magazine mentioned above through Amazon. Please recall that a percentage of any purchase you make after entering Amazon through the links on my site (even if you end up ordering items I haven't mentioned) helps support the upkeep of this crisischronicles.com. I'm grateful for those of you who've bought books, movies, music and magazine subscriptions through these links in the past. (Meribeth, Chris, Pinky, Elena, Dianne, Tara, Terese and my mom are among those who've helped support this site. If I've missed anyone, please let me know.) Since January, I've made an average of 20 dollars a month through my Amazon links - enough to cover (almost to the penny) the amount I pay GoDaddy each month to keep this site online with enough memory to hold all the content. I am grateful.
Now please go read the article, if you haven't yet. 
Interesting article, and interesting concept. It's true, because I've found myself interpreting emails (and assuming their tone), based on my own perceptions. And viewing posted comments is, or can be, a similar way of having misunderstandings that accelerate beyond manageable levels. Flame wars indeed. I addressed this concept in my poem "Communication Breakdown"; the idea of imperfect communication due to the limits imposed on us by the mechanics of language has always fascinated me.
Reply to this
I'm sorry for saying mean things. I kinda meant it for real, but I didn't think anyone would get mad because, well, some people act like old coots. (not mentioning any names.) But maybe it's just an act. So I'm sorry if I misjudged you. And as for the other guy (no names, but he does have a church of some sort), maybe you are just being funny but I didn't like it but evidently everyone else does, so it must be good if it makes people smile.
I'll try not to say ugly things to you guys any more. But if I do occasionally slip up, you can be pretty sure that you are interpreting it right. Cool? And then if you say ugly things back, I might disappear for awhile because I probably think you really mean it too. And then I get all pissed off.
There's how that goes. (But I secretly like you guys)
Reply to this
Time magazine pg. 57 September 3, 2008.
GEEK CHIC
HAIKU NATION
Words few, hard hitting, So participatory Mini-lit is hot (by Jeremy Caplan)
SHORT IS IN, ONLINE AMERICANS, fed up with e-mail overload and blogorrhea, are retreating into micro-writing. Six word memoirs. Four word film reviews, Twelve word novels. Mini-lit is thriving.
So maybe the less said the better about just everything since only half or less of it is understood anyway. And that definitely refers to poetry. I also have been accused of being nasty and cynical, Terese. But I'm just laughing it off right now. I really am not a flamethrower and try to keep a sense of humor. So LMAOAROTFF Tee hee...
Reply to this
I have struggled with this very problem myself. I can sometimes be sarcastic, and I sometimes have to remind myself not to express myself sarcastically in writing. There is so much that is expressed with a tone of voice, a posture or a look, that is lost when we communicate in writing. There are certain people who I will go to great lengths to meet in person for this very reason. However, I'm not giving up on writing. I have done a lot of writing in my career and working for lawyers, I have learned to be very careful what I say and how it may be interpreted. Thank God for the word "allegedly." I would like to see people get around the difficulty of e-mail misunderstandings by giving each other the benefit of the doubt when possible and if the situation warrants, placing a phone call or better yet, talking face to face. I don't know if this is true of other languages, but in the English language we often say something while meaning the exact opposite. My best advice is this. Don't tap something out and hit send. Take the logical middle step and read what you wrote. Read it from the point of view of the reader. Have some empathy. This could solve a lot of problems.
Terese, I like you. I enjoy reading what you write. I find your opinions challenging and interesting.
Reply to this
Wow! Thank you.
Reply to this
Well I think there is a lot of truth in that. And that can be true even when you know some one well... like a family member. I think you can get a wide variety of misinterpretation in e-mails or comment because there is no way to connote inflection. And I think when you don't know someone you might be more careful than when you "think" you know some and their mind.. . I think that can get you in a lot of trouble. People make assumptions on a little bit of what they know about someone and how they might take something.
I can say that I don't think people do it intentionally.. because people are often vague or ambiguous assuming someone will understand what they've written... when only they would understand the given context... when you speak to someone face to face a person can show in their face their level of understanding.
Under the circumstances most people will be afraid to ask for clarification.. or if you don't get a clear response. They will jump to conclusions.. not a good thing... but I think it's a normal reaction from most people. They don't want to appear uninformed or stupid.
I personally hate e-mail... I would much rather talk to people face to face any day.. I'm all for video conferencing someday.
Think how cool it would be to interaact over one of your blogs that way.. it would be cool. If some one said something sucked .. you'd know right away.. because you'd hear it in their voice and read it in their facial expression.... can't do that with e-mail.
Reply to this
This is very interesting stuff. The truth is people often misunderstand each other even when speaking in person so of course when writing and not fully using all our faculties, (the eyes, the facial expression, hand & body) we have less clues to go on.
Reply to this
I think everybody on My Space is trying to reinvent themselves. Everyone is a name or an avatar of someone they really are not in real life. So how can we understand each other this way? It is fucking frustrating if you forgive my bad language.
Reply to this
funny, i find people on myspace to be more themselves, at ease with who they really are, instead of how they are perceived to be in person.
i have a few profiles, and they all represent a part of me, even the names i choose for those profiles and the avatars i use of representational of bits of the real me.
a lot of people don't use their real name and face online because myspace is accessible to millions of people, and even if your profile is set to private, the one thing everyone can see is your name and your avatar.
Reply to this
Yes and that is where they live and love and work and play and be, in their avatar.
It is truly you Meribeth since it is where you want to be, who you want to be and the comfort zone is that nobody has ever seen you in person but you can be known to millions bit by bit and part by part and word by word. This is the magic of My Space, isn't it? It is also the REALITY of My Space. There is no actual three dimensional person there, just words, pictures and is like distance learning that is now taking over education in the universities. It is distance friendship where you never see your friends nor your mentors.
Reply to this
it is the magic of the entire internet, not just myspace.
i am 3d to a lot of people on my friends list, and plan on meeting several more of them soon, so never is not the word i would use here.
i met my husband 12 years ago in a chat room. he's in the next room, shall i go get him for you?
the possibilities are endless here as long as you keep an open mind.
Reply to this
even more perfect, i don't have to move at all, i'll just send him an email so we don;t have to shout to each other.
Reply to this
Hah! I met my husband on-line too. He wrote me a one line message. "When can we go out." I also dated other people on-line and found them all to be exactly who they said they were. I think that I am a little more real on myspace than in real life. Here you get all of me. We all show different parts of ourselves to different people such as spouses, children, co-workers. But here I feel like I can say whatever I want. I mean there's a kind of safety in knowing that if you don't want to, you are never going to meet these people in person. Lets just say that you all know much, much more about me than my neighbors, and I tell you things that I may be very reluctant to talk to someone about face to face.
Reply to this
Of course people only wear masks online. In person they're 100% real all the time. No masks whatsoever in "real" life, eh? LOL No one ever stretches the truth or tries to impress someone else. George Bush, for example, only pretends there were weapons of mass destruction on MySpace. In real life he keeps it real all the time. You can't trust anyone online. But in real life what you see is what you get. Trust them all. No one wears makeup or pretends they didn't fart or aren't gay in person. People only kiss ass online. LOL And Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.
Reply to this
I'm sorry if I have said anything to offend anyone. I truly do try to be as real as I can on here and I use my real name, but I also try not to hurt anyone and I apologize if I have. It doesn't bother me that some people choose to use another name or an icon rather than a picture.
I don't think it matters in the long run if you aren't exactly the person that you put forth on here. Not that I would like to be blatantly lied to, but it doesn't bother me if someone embellishes some things a little. It's not really hurting me although I should think that it would be better to be honest about yourself. Making people think you are something you aren't won't make it so.
People in real life tell little white lies...and sometimes big ones all the time..and they kiss butt all the time, especially in the work place. People like to impress other people. That is just human nature. Most of the time you can figure out who those people are and you take what they say with a grain of salt.
I think getting angry and picking someone apart for an opinion is not doing any good to anyone. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to express that opinion. There should be no reason for anyone to get angry unless someone blatantly picks someone apart. I am getting off track here, I know.
I do agree that it's difficult sometimes to tell exactly how a person means what they write, having no voice inflections or facial and body language to go by.
Oh, and some people are just feisty and like to stir things up and create some excitement and play the devil's advocate. That's what makes life and these blogs interesting. (in my humble opinion) I love all you guys! Even though I don't really know you! You're smart, fun and interesting.
Reply to this
So is this blog the equivalent of "the good coffee?"
Have a nice nap, Crisis. We'll do more good coffee when you wake up.
Reply to this
I 'd like to add something to what Susan just added above. I know Devil's advocate and others are trying to add maybe a little humor to this topic.. and that's cool.. I get it.. or think I do. But it's a serious topic.. or should be. I think... misunderstanding what people say... it can cause a lot of issues.
There are many people that are on-line for entertainment... they don't watch TV.. they prefer to be on-line networking with friends, blogging,, whatever... that's cool. I myself, prefer to talk to friend on-line, or read than watch the idiot box.
But I have also seen people use the internet as a kind of sport to inflate their egos at someone elses expense... and it is an ugly game they play. I have seen it it some prominent blogs on MySpace and elsewhere where if you comment, your words are used against you and twisted to make a point. And in this internet sport people don't care who they hurt.. because to them it is only on-line and these are"not real people" to them.
That whole arena makes me sick to my stomach.
Because to me, the people I converse with on-line are real people (I've actually met some of them) and deserve the same thoughtfulness and respect I would give to anyone else I know.
To be honest I am here to have fun...and talk to people, but I am also here to learn and grow through my interaction with the people I meet. I don't know how I can honestly and do that if I am not really ME. And say what I really mean. I try very hard to say what I mean when I write something to someone... whether it is in a comment or an e-mail... and will often "sweat bullets" in some cases because I want to say "exactly" what I mean. I'm not into manipulation and games or subtle sarcasm... I think it's a waste of time to communicate with someone that way. I get more from above board honest conversation and inquiry than anything else.
I try very hard to "say what I mean".
I know like anyone.. I don't always get it right.. but I try... and hope people will cut me some slack when I occassionally screw up.
Reply to this
no one ever hears another, or listens to another. instead they listen with their world view bias, or listening thinking about what they're going to say next.
i had one collaborator who seemed to watch my face thinking "his mouth is moving, so he must be talking - i must wait until his mouth stops moving to say what is in my buffer."
they hear things wrong, miss a lot of what's said, and interpret everything through their own skewed inaccurate filters.
truth, simplicity, repetition - nothing makes sure another hears what you really said.
Reply to this
"A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker."
Our actions are not always in alignment with our thoughts and inner process. Sometimes we judge a person based on their behavior in one event and fail to consider the whole individual.
Reply to this
I'm sure that honest misunderstandings are a real part of the cause of what are being called flame wars. My daughter said they could be worked out quite easily. I'm not so sure. These problems could probably be largely prevented if people would consider that writing is a different form of communication than speaking in person. It takes greater consideration and discipline to express oneself in writing. A letter has to be carefully crafted and the words carefully chosen so that there are no misunderstandings. I find a lot of value in speaking to others in writing. I love to receive a letter or an e-mail. I enjoy the styles in which people write. Some people say things in writing that they would never express verbally. There's a certain cloak of anonymity that allows a writer to be a little more frank and a little more daring.
The special consideration on myspace is that we are most likely writing to people that we have never met in person. I would have to think that it is easier to understand someone's meaning in writing when you are familiar with the way they express themselves in person. I think a lot of people write things and don't re-read them to see how the reader may interpret what is said.
But, there are also instances, hopefully few and far between, when the animosity detected is not a misunderstanding at all. I'm fifty-eight years old, and I always say what I mean. I think I know the difference between when someone is joking or not. As the saying goes, even a dog knows the difference between when it has been tripped over and it has been kicked. I think that it's great that people feel free to speak their mind all over myspace. But it needs to be a place of mutual respect. I have friends that I completely disagree with. But if I couldn't deal with them respectfully, I would not talk to them at all.
Reply to this
I have read the comments on these blogs religiously. John needs coffee, I need his blogs and his friends comments. I'm really taken by surprise at the people who are apologizing for things they have said. I don't see that you have anything to be sorry for Susan, or Terese, or anyone else. The contrary comments are half the fun. There are rotten apples all over myspace, just like Chris suggested. We all know that. But I have not found any here. When good people are offering apologies and are afriad that people don't like them because of something they said, that's a real shame.
Oh and Smith makes a very good point. If you think about it, you will catch yourself doing what he said. I have. When someone is talking to you and you are thinking of the next thing you are going to say, you are not listening and not even having a conversation, because that takes the participation of two people.
Reply to this
Thanks Tara. I am just very sensitive to people's feelings and hope that I don't hurt anyone by anything I say.
I too am guilty of what Smith was talking about in just waiting for the other guy to finish what he's saying so I can talk. I try not to do that, so have to make a conscious effort to pay attention to what is being said to me. Sometimes. Not all of the time though.
Reply to this
The grandkids are on their way over for the weekend, so I'm afraid I don't have time to respond to everyone individually. So please pardon this one-size-fits-all sort of response.
Lots of good points have been made, and I'm grateful for all your feedback. No apologies are necessary, as far as I'm concerned, but the fact that folks are willing to offer them says a lot. I don't think any of us wants to hurt anyone. I especially like what Pat said about the need for us to be more thoughtful when we put things in writing, to minimize the potential for misunderstanding. That said, Smith is right that some level of incomplete understanding is inevitable. The conclusion I draw is that communication, though often imperfect, beats the hell out of a lack of communication. Sometimes lately, I've been so busy with trying to build a career/reputation and kick open a few cracked doors of opportunity (striking while the iron is hot), I've not felt able to make the time to communicate as well or as often as I'd like with fine friends like yourselves (my wife, mom and others around here have been neglected as well). So if anyone needs to apologize, let it be me.
We'll have children in the house all weekend, so I don't expect to be online much for the next day or two. I'll try to get caught up as soon as I can.
Peace, gratitude and much love,
John
Reply to this
Have fun with those grandkids, John, and have a great weekend!
Reply to this
The swiftest horse can't overtake a word once spoken*
Reply to this
Ooo, I feel guilty I haven't bought anything through your site. I want to let you know our financial situation, though. It makes me question every single purchase I make, which is the reason I don't order many things. We're trying to live within our means especially since the trip into Cleveland & back wiped out a lot of money.
RE the tone of words - I think it's almost impossible to know via written language the intent behind a statement. It's also difficult to discern when someone is being ironic or using poetic license.
I think the tone of your site always comes across as fair and gentle with people, tho.
Best luck to you and the Mrs.
Reply to this
'I think the tone of your site always comes across as fair and gentle with people, tho."
I agree wholeheartedly.
Reply to this
Thanks! I don't know how successful I am always, but I try.
Reply to this